The world according to Prosper, by Tristan Holme

[Googly]

I like those pics with captions too. Your flippancy would indicate there's truth in my statement. AC's motives for remaining in the system have been the subject for much debate, I doubt enjoyment factors into it.
The fact that you don't think cricket died years ago is why you continue to post the stuff you do, much of it is a clever distortion of the real facts and you are very good at it, I'll give you that. If you were brutally honest with yourself you would be one helluva administrator but you let your constant prejudice continually mess with some astute observations.
It has undoubtedly expired, we are just on life support, is all.

[bavuma_rabada]

I think Tristan's analysis here is pretty fair if I'm allowed to venture into this territory as a rank outsider. One simply cannot ignore the fact that race (or culture, or class?) is an issue in Zim (and not only in cricket). It might not define all relations within the team but certainly some. If you look at photos of the guys on tour you get the picture. It might be a case of hanging out with the mates you've grown up with, but in Zim this more often than not means hanging out with guys from your own cultural background.

White people built barriers between themselves and Africans. The onus is on them to reach out. Failure and refusal to accept and learn African languages is proof that they have no interest in doing so. That's the case to this generation.

This is not just a Zim thing. It affects South Africa deeply too. Just read this article form Firdose - South Africa's squad set to disperse after drawn Test. The divisions and cliques in the Proteas are nauseating. To this day in SA for actors of the same set, junior or senior white actors insist o not sharing the same changing rooms with non-whites.

And finally: It is totally unnecessary to call Prosper a cheat for his chucking. We all thought his action was just fine and never mentioned him while discussing Querl, Waller or Vitori. His behaviour on the pitch has nothing to do with his off-field actions.

[eugene]

You sure it isn't just people wanting share the changing rooms with you?

[Googly]

You need to be more specific as to which African language you think white South Africans should learn. There are 11 of them. Samora Machel enabled Mozambiqueans to communicate by insisting they all learned Portuguese. It seems English does the same trick in SA and Zim and Zambia and has the added advantage of being used world wide. Ordering a hot dog in New York in Venda is going to get you a strange look. Well that might not be entirely true, the black South Africans are also running away from their disastrous racist government and then illogically supporting the policies from afar. Idealism and pragmatism don't make good bed fellows. It's been the white experience that if you reach out and assist it gets taken anyway, and usually a lot faster, and what is taken in this manner is usually rendered useless within a couple of years. The old cry of nations being built on the back of black blood, sweat, tears and misery is still a rallying cry but has worn a bit thin because it's still expected of them, but for a lot less money in real terms and often under worse conditions. The trade unions, once the friend of black political parties conning their way into power with empty unrealistic promises, have now become the arch enemy. If it wasn't tragic it would be funny. Of course there are people from different cultures and races that mix and do it well, but the vast majority don't want to mix beyond a highly superficial level. What is really wanted is to use the current environment to take what is not due under the guise of empowerment, which is just another word for theft. Even if it could still be managed after it was stolen it would still be theft, but invariably it can't. Empowerment should be about acquiring skills, not businesses before someone is ready to manage it. Some of the Zim farming entrepreneurs are getting it half right, they steal the farm and then give the farmer 49% to continue farming, whilst they sit in Harare, it's an outrage but it works.

What nauseates you? Is it the whites not making more effort or the black guys not making more effort? The thing that really annoys me is that whites are always expected to move over and accommodate, the black guys must start their own stuff and build it up and be proud of it. I wait for the day with breathless anticipation when the white guys look longingly at something a black community started and start moaning that it's not fair and they want it. I fear old age will get me first.

[bavuma_rabada]

You need to be more specific as to which African language you think white South Africans should learn. There are 11 of them. Samora Machel enabled Mozambiqueans to communicate by insisting they all learned Portuguese.

They've had hundreds of years to figure that one out don't you think? Machel lived and died in a portion of the 20th century. This issue transcends centuries.

You cannot afford to go to Turkey or Spain and live 400 years via successive generations then know neither Spanish nor Turkish. Look at the African Americans. They speak English perfectly - all successive generations. I can't even strike up a basic conversation in any african language with Africans.

Williams, Taylor, Craig etc have been around those boys, do you think it's like Afrikaans in the Springboks where Black, Coloured, Indian&Afrikaaners have to know Afrikaans,to converse with the Afrikaaners in the team? None of them speak Shona properly. The rest of the squad which is predominantly Shona have to change and accomodate them, a minority, sometimes just Taylor as he was sometimes the only one in the XI. Tristan himself fails to acknowldge such, as do some of you when you attack Utseya for giving his opinions on the groupings and cliques. Language is a barrier, and the ones not making or refusing to make the effort are not the Africans I can assure you.

The thing that really annoys me is that whites are always expected to move over and accommodate, the black guys must start their own stuff and build it up and be proud of it.

Who built bridges between the two? Bear in mind that it's only a few years ago here that we were living under the philosophies of Smith and PW. I'd like to think a few guys here were alive and mature when those things were happening. So stop being simplistic by pretending that this is from 200 years ago. It's not. Here we still have towns, cities, venues which have not been cured. What you're saying will only make sense hundreds of years from now, but as things stand, the onus to make significant effort is on the other. Your reasoning on social issues and grasp of history is significantly flawed. Stick to cricket.

You only need to read the comments below that article I posted. The beauty about Cricinfo is that it has a neutral majority.

Where is Tristan?

[Jemisi]

SA is different to Zim. In Zim if you learn Shona you are able to speak with the vast majority, and only one more language to be covering almost the whole population.

Hhm, ehe VaRungu vanofanira kuedza kudzidza kutaura chivanhu.

But there is a lot more to it than that. The whites may not have shifted gears from Rhodesian times well enough, but the performance of Zanu administration has been abysmal. And much of the errors have to do with a desire to look back in blame rather than to look forward with the people's benefit in mind.

Essentially, a thuggish regime of kleptocrats was enabled by the East and West alike to take power from the colonial regime. There is blame pretty much everywhere but just putting it on the tiny vestige of Rhodies left is entirely unhelpful to the common Zimbabwean both in cricket and out of it.

It would be great if someone came up with a Shona centred approach to cricket administration. But all we have from Utseya et al is the jealousy of the victim mentality that keeps the nation down. If you want the whites to stop bemoaning the death of cricket in the country along with everything else, then propose something constructive. Build something they can respect and bring them along.

A Shona solution that the whites had to get on board with would be fine, but you have to come up with one that works. At the moment all that can be seen is typical of the Big Man kleptocracies spread right across the continent. Nothing special to Zim or its people, just typical of thugs and thieves.

If you are genuine Hhm, come up with some thoughts that can be pondered over and reflected upon. Anti-colonial complaints have been tried and seen to fail. Something new actually needs to be built.

[bavuma_rabada]

The whites may not have shifted gears from Rhodesian times well enough, but the performance of Zanu administration has been abysmal. And much of the errors have to do with a desire to look back in blame rather than to look forward with the people's benefit in mind.

The Rhodesian farmers were sourrounded by natives in their farms, white collar workeres in he workplace and factories. Yo can ignore post 1980, or post 1998 when wheels started to come off. Focus on just pre1980, and my point still stands whether you want to admit it or not!

I commend people like you and Roy Bennett who were able to learn the local language, and we have Athol Trollip here who knows Xhosa. Heath Streak knew a bit of Ndebele, and I'd like to think Guy Whittall knew a bit of Shona too. But that's just four prominet figures off the top off my head out of how many millions, across how many generations (5 including prominent Jemisi of course ).

Sometimes you just have to lift up your hand and leave it at that not even try to explain or defend anything.

[Jemisi]

Streak is fluent in Ndebele, ndinofunga.

Not really trying to defend them, since I agree, Dzidzai chiShona!

But aside from being annoyed by this failure of most of the white community ( from my reading and experience a reasonable minority do have Shona) I am genuine in asking for a way forward.

What use is it to just run things poorly and blame the colonial regime even if it is still in our living memory?

What would a successful Shona/Ndebele styled cricket admin look like?

I am not prepared to call the current one Shona since that would be to condemn the people to failure forever.

[brmtaylor.com admin]

The English language is the greatest colonial legacy that exists in Zimbabwe (after cricket of course). Because of that and and a generation of really literate people, a Zimbabwean can pretty easily get a job in South Africa, UK, Australia, New Zealand, USA, Canada, etc. Not a bad roll call of countries for one to be able to make themselves understood in.

I figure you've run out of steam hhm if the English language is what you're waging war against now, because I think even you know that's dead last on the list of problems facing Zimbabwe.

[bavuma_rabada]

CONTEXT!!!

No one is waging a war against English!!!

Atricle mentions divisions and groupings BRM. They are clearly not based on class lines and private school-state school lines. Language is the single biggest reason. I am addressing that - and highlighting how the writer was able to point at other things but ignore the role language plays - and identifying who is guilty and failing as far as integration concerned -> those refusing to learn mother tongues of the land, of the majority, hence zero integration and constant divisions. Many of those players wouldn't hesitate to mster French or Italian if they were living Paris & Rome where you can survive in English. Why refuse to do it in Harare(Shona) or Durban(Zulu), if not fo rthe fact that you look down up those languages and consider it a waste of your time & effort?

The state of the economy, ZC, political policies have got nothing to do with decades of entreched habits some have avoided dealing with, yet Googly is soemhow fast forwarding it to today and giving the impression that 15 years of hardship in Zimbabwe is what has limited&affected interaction and bonding.

The English language is the greatest colonial legacy that exists in Zimbabwe (after cricket of course). Because of that and and a generation of really literate people, a Zimbabwean can pretty easily get a job in South Africa, UK, Australia, New Zealand, USA, Canada, etc. Not a bad roll call of countries for one to be able to make themselves understood in.

Wrong! That's entirely down to Mugabe's education policy via teachers' colleges, books and stationery, four national exams - Grade 7, Form Two & Form Four and A Level, quality markers, tough entrance to the top state school.

Zimbabweans' English is on par with educated Kenyans, Nigerians, Ghanians, Tanzanians, Ugandans, Zambians & Malawians etc, so that's a moot point. Numbers produced is the difference, and that's partly due to Zimbabwe's smaller student population ratio to available teachers. The spread & depth of those educated and produced is what makes the difference between Zimbabweans and other Africans, and that's down to one ROBERT GABRIEL MUGABE. He ensured that quality teachers were produced in high numbers.

Not even his biggest enemies in the worst deny Mugabe that praise. Reacquaint yourself with facts.

In any case peopel are not educated to be expats - working in old age homes or waitressing restaurants. They are educated to develop their land, hence it's rather simplistic and insensitive to consider proficiency in English commendable because they are able to integrate in other areas where colonialism plundered natives and their languages.