"Zimbabwe will end up like Kenya" - Whatmore

[ZIMDOGGY]

Zimdoggy here.
Two things,

1. We are not Kenya, but as I said a few months back. We WILL be after the next World Cup of three years when the thin veneer of talent in the system, the hammys, the Willos etc are old and will retire or walk away. There is nothing below it. Jongwe ffs, jongwe is meant to be the saviour. I'm a better cricketer than jongwe and I spend my days in a office.

1.5 follow on point, like I also have said, Zimbabwe have NO CHANCE of improving in the short to mid term without a concentrated effort to reach out to the diaspora. It isn't going to happen otherwise. And to be honest, it really shouldn't be hard to convince kids/ players to live the Pimp lifestyle of being an international cricketer for your country.

2. I cringed when whatmore made his franchise number point. The rabid 'let's expand the domestic numbers to 12 teams' types here just got fuel added to their fire. The truth is, the domestic numbers isn't DW's point. His point is only s certain number of players are playing cricket any point. Emerging cricketers are being starved. The answe isn't mindless expansion. It's resting a second division like he mentioned, or some new tier. Personally, I think we should create a tier above the Logan cup.

[Tristan Holme]

Some good points on here. Thanks all.

With regards to his gripe about four franchises, I think he was complaining about the lack of second team cricket. I agree that four pemier domestic sides is a good number for Zim, if you want to have a competition of reasonable quality. But you need to have something below that to secure more cricket.

And, promisingly, ZC intend to do just that. I spoke to chairman Tavengwa Mukuhlani (will post interview in another thread), who said the franchise system is being canned and a two-tier provincial model adopted. More cricket will definitely help.

Regardless, I sense an effort by Tristan Holme to shore up an otherwise poor statistics by the team. In my opinion, Dave Whatmore reign was by all accounts poor. I don't know if a coach from the moon can ever succeed with Zimbabwe either.

Interesting also how Whatmore feels four franchise teams in the country is not adequate.

I was mostly just looking for statistics that give an idea of whether Whatmore was as disastrous as previous coaches, to provide some sort of neutral line between him and Mukuhlani. The statistics say he was slightly better, although you could argue that as a well-known international coach on a good salary, they were nowhere near good enough. I would say that overly debating it is almost pointless, because of the systemic issues in our cricket.

I should also point out an edit by the subs. I originally wrote: 'In truth, Zimbabwe have never had a side that won frequently.' The subs added: 'for over a decade now' to the end of that sentence, which was wrong. Zim did not win more games in the 1990s (they actually won fewer games). But as I suggested by including stats about how much Zim lost by under Whatmore, I believe that for Zim it's mostly about competing. That's all we ask really - for the team to entertain us and put on a good show. Zim definitely did that in the '90s and early 2000s, even though they were playing against far superior opponents to the ones they face today. The India ODI series last month was just horrible.

[eugene]

The Zimbabwe team of the 90s would have had a very good win percentage had they faced associate nations as regularly as they do now.

[Tristan Holme]

The Zimbabwe team of the 90s would have had a very good win percentage had they faced associate nations as regularly as they do now.

Absolutely. You could also argue that if Zimbabwe were still playing to that standard, they would still have regular fixtures against the top teams and wouldn't need to play the Associates so often. It's no accident that we're the only Full Member side playing Afghanistan in bilateral series. We've essentially 'found our level'.

Which is why I think a two-tier Test structure would actually suit Zim. Far better to have lots of guaranteed game time against equals than the odd fixture against B-rate Full Member sides, especially if a new ICC finance model is going to ensure the new fixtures are fully funded.

[Googly]

Who will be in that second tier?
Zim, Afghanistan, Ireland? Who else?

[Jemisi]

BD and WI

[TapsC]

I am in favour of the 2 tier test divisions because I feel that's the only way we will be guaranteed game time and stability. I am also not a fan of watching our team getting hammered like what's going on right now. I would rather we first play teams we know we can be competitive with regularly than the odd test against south africa where we get badly beaten once every 3 years. ICC must compromise and make sure they fully fund the 2nd division and also I personally feel there should be 6 teams in both divisions and that the team that finishes 2nd in the low tier must be allowed a playoff series against the team that finishes 2nd last in the top tier. that would add a lot more meaning to the games

[eugene]

The two tier system will only be used as long as Australia, England, and India are in the top 6. Once one of them sinks - which will happen, the system will no doubt be ditched. Does the two tier system mean that tier two nations will never play tier one?

[Jemisi]

Div 2 and Div 1 teams can play each other outside of the divisional tournament structure I think... not that anything is more than a thought bubble atm.

[Googly]

That's tough on Bangladesh and West Indies, seems that's cruel and unusual punishment. Bangladesh at home are tough to beat and WI are capable of a resurgence. The problem for them is if they spend 2-3 years playing tier 2 they will never compete against Tier 1 again. So two of the teams with potential will be used to drag us and affiliates up but at a big cost. Don't forget the test tours will also involve T20 and ODI which means less game time for those two teams against better opposition. Don't discount Holland either, if some of the South Africans have eligibility like our own Snater, they will be on a par with BD within a few years. When SA, Aus, India and England have dozens of players capable of playing at the highest level and then we have the license to play but lack the players it shows things aren't right.