Zimbabwe Vs West Indies | 2nd Test | 12-16 Feb 2023 | Bulawayo

[pillowprocter]

After them there was Raqibul, Anamul, Sabbir, Nasir, Soumya, Naim, and probably a few others I'm forgetting. Jury is still out on Shanto, Afif, Mosaddek, and Yasir.

Surely jury is still out on naim aswell?

[Kriterion_BD]

Surely jury is still out on naim aswell?

I was a huge fan of Naim given his domestic record. He came in with a List A average of 40+ and ~100 strike rate. Then we saw him play. I put him in the Marumani category ie he has to VASTLY improve his technique/overall game just to be a mediocre player.

And thats my point, Naim might look good when he's smashing Ariful Hasan, Joynul Islam, and Alamur Rahman (all made up domestic players, don't bother to look them up on cricinfo ) who are bowling 125 bouncers, and orthodox spin with no actual spin...but you put him up against O'shane Thomas, Naveen ul Haq, or Wellington Masakadza and he will look all at sea. Forget about Bumrah, Shaheen, or Starc.

Similarly, when I watch Marumani spank a cover drive a la Vusi Sibanda, I can see why so many rave about him on this forum...but then I see that his next 10 runs come from inside edges, outside edges, and mis-hits. You know that cricinfo widget (is that what they are called???) that shows the batter's real-time in-control shot percentage? I bet Marumani has a career 25% at this point in time.

Contrast to my current fave Najmul Hossain Shanto. Has bang average numbers so far, averaging 26, 14, and 21 in Tests, ODIs, T20Is respectively. However, apart from him edging behind to get out...he generally always has a 90% in control percentage. Which is why I believe he may eventually come good (obviously no guarantees though).

I may have very high standards, unreasonable or unrealistic even, but thats how I see it.

[Kriterion_BD]

Also note, that I have been wrong before. Two cases in point...I always believed Sean Williams would end up as a mediocre batter averaging in the high 20s, with very few hundreds to his name. I was very wrong, and he's now on the cusp of being world class. Needs a couple big scores vs a world class attack to make the jump up.

Back in 2013 when I first saw Raza...my assessment was he'd only be a mid-20s average batsman. He now averages 35+ in both the tougher formats. So again I was very wrong. Now granted, I think Raza's numbers actually inflate his actual ability a bit...but thats a purely subjective thing. I rate Raza at the same level as Ervine, and behind Taylor and Williams. But given by how many franchise gigs he's got, you'd think the guy is a new-age Viv Richards. Is there a league he's NOT playing in?

I did get one right though...in 2010 I saw Regis Chakabva and thought he'd turn out to be a very solid player for Zimbabwe...and sure enough he's just behind the Big 4, and I think almost everyone would agree to that.

[CrimsonAvenger]

I did get one right though...in 2010 I saw Regis Chakabva and thought he'd turn out to be a very solid player for Zimbabwe...and sure enough he's just behind the Big 4, and I think almost everyone would agree to that.

I see that Hamilton has completely disappeared from your reality.

[zimbos_05]

For example, Wes is generally considered on this forum to not be ready for Test cricket yet. Probably correct. But then whats the alternative? Does he knock about the Logan Cup to score 3-4000 domestic FC runs? Is that really going to improve his game to a level similar to the current Big 3? My theory is that for teams with weaker domestic cricket, the best way for a young player to develop his game is at the international level. I know zimbos will disagree, and thats OK, this is just my opinion.

Not just your opinion.

It is said that Andy Flower strongly believed the only way for a player to improve in Zimbabwe was to throw them into the test arena. The local stuff would have a negative impact on their development and playing habits.

He also told Taitenda Taibu (In Taibu's book) to ignore advice from other players in the Zimbabwe team as they werent good enough and had losing habits.

The other side of the coin.

Too right I disagree.

Whilst Doggy will bring up the Flower example, the time in which Flower played was much different to now. We had a much better infrastructure and coaching set up then. We also had players playing regularly be it club, province, county, Aus domestic. They were getting regular cricket and could still learn and develop outside of the Test arena. Our boys are not getting that.

A lot of our players then were also learning and actually taking on advice. So if they made mistakes, you could see those mistakes being fixed in the next game or at least worked on. Not now. Guy gets out to sweep shot, you just know he is going to try it another 50 times hoping for different results. Guy gets out swinging, turn up to the next game, and swing from ball 1.

Their development is not in the same vain as it was when Flower and Co played. Those lads in the 90s and early 00s made progress and challenged teams on the regular. They made up for lack of skill in certain areas with hard work, grit, and determination. This was seen in our fielding. One of the best in the world. Nowadays our guys think that once they've worn the shirt they have made it. They don't need to put in the effort. We dropped so many catches at the T20 WC and we crumbled under pressure so so easily so so regularly.

Wes is being asked to carry this team when he is struggling with his own form and skill. He can't do that in all 3 formats. Throwing him to the wolves is not ideal. Not in the manner of which our system is set up.

[Kriterion_BD]

I see that Hamilton has completely disappeared from your reality.

Hamilton's debut pre-dates my interest in cricket. By the time he came back from Uni, he was a solid player in his era. Definitely not at Taylor's level, and probably a tad better than Williams at that time. He would somnambulate into the current Zimbabwe side, IMO. He'd be well behind Williams and Raza, and on current form be around the level of Ervine, but that would put him ahead of the likes of Madhevere/Marumani/Shumba.

Apparently, he could have been a much better player had he not taken a few years off.

[TapsC2]

Interestingly enough a lot of people don't rate Raza. I understand why too. This predates his recent form. I would say he has achieved a lot for somebody who has been playing international cricket for only 10 years but I do understand why people think he is overrated. His bad days are really bad

[secretzimbo]

We also had players playing regularly be it club, province, county, Aus domestic. They were getting regular cricket and could still learn and develop outside of the Test arena. Our boys are not getting that.

To be fair most of our players haven’t had a break for the past 18 months.

Quality cricket? No.
Quantity of cricket? Yes.

Domestic franchise and club cricket has been basically non-stop. No wonder we have so many injuries.

[jaybro]

If I had time I’d love to write piece on the Big 6 (including Hamilton & Chigumbura) and distract their strengths weaknesses and where I see them being positioned in regard to rankings etc.

They had their strengths in different areas, some more consistent than others. For instance Raza & Chigumbura seemed to have that match winning ability, maybe because they were finishers rather than top order batsman.

Williams was portrayed in the Forum as being the type to score runs in losing efforts, or once the result had been already determined. I think his later years probably resulted in more match winning knocks.

Hamilton for me was severely undervalued by the forum, no other Zimbabwe batsman could score runs against the new ball and against legitimate fast bowlers, so I believe he was better than his average suggest.

Would be a great write, and would no doubt produce a solid basis for long debate. If I get the time I will try to piece it together

[zimbos_05]

Hamilton for me was severely undervalued by the forum, no other Zimbabwe batsman could score runs against the new ball and against legitimate fast bowlers, so I believe he was better than his average suggest.

He was definitely better than his average suggests. He should easily have been a proper Zim great, but his legacy is one of, left wanting. He should really have been our AVG 40+ test batter and 35+ ODI/T20 batter, but he never fully achieved his potential.

His mindset, for me, sums up ZC for so long. Being content with 'ok'